Episode 5 - Body Image in Dance & Yoga with Charlene Dinger

Charlene Dinger is a multi-faceted movement facilitator. She is a yoga instructor, choreographer, dance educator and fitness trainer, working with students of all ages and backgrounds throughout the GTA. Her background in dance (growing up as a competitive dancer then going on to work as a professional in the field) has inspired her to explore and stay curious about all types of movement, the body, anatomy and how they are all linked to breath, well-being and mental health.

In this episode Charlene shares her journey as a dancer growing up and continuing on in the professional dance world and how she strives to create a better body image for her students and cultivate more inclusive classes for both her dance and yoga students. She shares her meditation practice and more.

More about Charlene: In 2007, she decided to leave her hometown of Oakville, Ontario to see more of the world and expand her dance career to Europe. She ended up in London, UK where she trained, taught, and worked for 7 years – on top of exploring neighboring cities and countries!

After returning to Toronto, where she now resides, Charlene decided to focus on the education and mentorship of young dancers through classes, workshops and working as a dance adjudicator across Canada. Forever a curious student, she completed her 500-hour yoga teacher training in 2018, and is studying Psychology at Ryerson University’s Chang School for Continuing Education.

Charlene strives to blend her passions and feels that movement and exploration of the body is fluid and ever evolving. The connection of body, mind and spirit is a pillar of her message that she hopes to share with the various communities she works within.

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Transcript

CHRISTINE
 Welcome Charlene to the show. I thank you for being here and I love that you refer to yourself or call yourself a multifaceted movement facilitator, and we're going to get into all that, but thank you so much for spending some time and sharing your story.

CHARLENE
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Christine. I'm really glad that we were able to connect. I'm very, very passionate about this topic and I'm really excited for our chat today.

CHRISTINE
Yes so glad to have you here. So you are, you were a dancer, you are a dancer, but you grew up in the dance world and you've like many dancers have had a toxic relationship with your body.
So talk to me about that and the healing process to come out of that. 

CHARLENE
Oh, where do I begin? Um, you know, it's definitely something that is, has been a true journey for me. And to be perfectly honest and completely transparent, I'm still on that journey. I think like many of us are, um, as you said, I, I grew up dancing. I was a competitive dancer for most of my life. Started at like seven years old, really, really competitively and starting to kind of get into more of that elite side of the training and then eventually getting into the industry. But it wasn't until I got a little bit older I'm, you know, I'm in my mid thirties now and it really wasn't until probably a few years ago that I actually had a little bit more awareness about that, that toxic relationship and looking back on some of my training and the way that I would look at myself in the mirror and the way that I would talk to myself and also in that environment of a competitive dance studio, you know, especially at a very elite level, you have certain expectations, there's certain things that are programmed into you and I think I should also acknowledge too, you know, like teachers back in the day, you know that from that generation, they also were programmed to not love themselves, essentially to look in the mirror and think, Oh, this could be better. I could be skinnier.  Programming certain words that come through certain things that I've heard teachers say that, you know right now, when I, when I think about it, when I think about teaching my young dance students, I'm like, if I ever said some of that. The stuff that I've heard, teachers say stories about other teachers saying it's like that, you know, it would be, it would be considered child abuse, like essentially things, things that language that, that is around our bodies. And I think now I'm starting to, to get a little bit more aware of the way that I speak to myself, looking at my reflection in the mirror and just loving myself, loving every curve, loving every part of myself and through my yoga teacher training through working with some wonderful fitness trainers that have  been emphasizing a little bit more of strong, not skinny type of mindset. That's where I kind of found myself looking at my body a little bit differently and realizing that,  It's really about how you feel, it's truly about how you feel in your skin, in your own body. It's not about how you look because,  there's all of these different images around what a perfect body should be and where we're fed all of these images. And I think if we can kind of just step back from that and realize that most of that imagery that is given to us is photo-shopped or it's not real, you know?  So I think when we kind of can bring a little bit more awareness and a little bit more attention to how we're feeling. I think then we can kind of start to realize that I feel healthy. I feel good. I'm moving my body and that's all that matters. You know, that's all that matters. It's how I feel, but it's way easier said than done for sure. But I am starting to grow into a place where I can look at myself in the mirror and not judge myself, or at least if negative thoughts do come up I have that awareness now, as I've grown, as I've matured, as I've grown as an educator and a mentor as well, I'm like, well, I have to practice what I preach. You know, this is something that I, I try to teach my young, my young dancers, especially my young female dancers, to love themselves. To look in the reflection to love their body, to know that, you know, they're nourishing themselves through movement. Practicing what I preach and being able to to step into that a little bit more.

CHRISTINE
 So appreciative to have educators in the dance world that have that philosophy, because looking back at my dance life, I too had that experience that you shared. And it's interesting because I think it all was just so normal. It was the way it was so having educators that,  I hate to look back and make judgment because it's all we knew.  I didn't think anything different about it. 

CHARLENE
Absolutely. 

CHRISTINE
But to have that change and that shift now is so helpful to save young girls, boys too, from experiencing the shame and maybe even not pursuing.....I mean, I was told many times I didn't have a dancer's body. So if you are told that enough, you feel like you can't be a professional dancer. 

CHARLENE
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad that you mentioned males as well because my husband is also a dancer.  He started a little bit later, but it's definitely prevalent, you know, it's definitely prevalent in the industry for males. He's walked into auditions before and before, even learning choreography before even showing his talent, what he can do, his skills, they would ask him to take his shirt off. And this is what the industry is, unfortunately. And I do believe that we are sort of veering into a place now where every body is being a little bit more accepted, especially when you have artists, you know, that are coming out now, like Lizzo has dancers that are of all shapes of all sizes and really promoting that I think is, is really, really cool. So I'm hoping that it's kind of starting to take a little bit of a, of a turn. But it's hard and like you said, it's hard to look back and kind of think about, Oh, my teacher has actually had such a huge influence on me without, without me really realizing it. I have this very vivid memory of when  I was on diet pills. I was hiding it from my parents. And I remember hearing a teacher, an older teacher that had come back for a visit and I kind of was in earshot of their conversation and I heard the other teachers say to my teacher, "Oh, Charlene looks great. She looks really good", you know, and that really stuck with me. That was like, okay, I'm doing something right.  I'm getting that praise. I'm getting that attention. And I ended up getting really sick. I wasn't able to perform to the best of my ability for a particular competition and you know, that that was the result of it. And, and it's really, really toxic. But I think again, if we can try to promote mindfulness self-love self-compassion and really drill that messaging into the next generation. Hopefully that will start to create a little bit of a change. 

CHRISTINE
So true. So true. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about creating some inclusive spaces because you are a dancer, but you also are a yoga teacher. And for a lot of people, yoga is not a really accessible way to move their body. We generally see white thin women doing yoga. So we ourselves at Pop Fit Studio, our goal is to create very inclusive spaces and joyful movement. So how do you create inclusivity. How do you create spaces that really are welcoming to all? 

CHARLENE
Yeah, that's such a wonderful question and so great for it today, actually, because I literally just finished teaching family yoga and that's one of my favorite classes of the week now, because it's literally everybody, you know, everyone is involved and it definitely takes some practice and it takes some time I'm a few years into my, um, my yoga teaching journey now. And so I'm definitely learning as I go. I took a course through a foundation called new leaf foundation and it was more specifically catered towards teaching marginalized youth, but it definitely filtered into all of my teaching and it was really all about inclusivity.  We had a whole section on anti-oppression and just really emphasizing, creating those spaces, understanding that you need to meet everyone where they are at understanding that as it, as a teacher, as an instructor, you are there to hold that space for everyone. Regardless of their shape, regardless of their size, regardless of their background, and understanding that you don't know what people have gone through.  I like to think that I create a space where people can come to me and say, Hey, I'm working with this. Hey, I have this injury, Hey, I can't really, you know, go into this shape so that I'm aware of it. But some people don't want to share those things and that's totally fine. So I think just kind of stepping into it, understanding that and being really, really aware that, okay, I have to leave a lot of space for everyone. So for me, it's really about giving lot out of options, giving a lot of variations without making it feel like, Oh, if you do this option or you take this variation, you are less than, or you're not expressing the full posture. Like there's no such thing as a full posture in yoga. You know, I just like to give that space to explore, to find some creativity. And I really just encourage what feels good in your body right now in this moment,  knowing that it's okay to not have the exact same shape from side to side it's okay. If yesterday you were able to fold all the way forward towards your toes. Okay. And today that's not happening. It's just not happening today. You know, and just kind of encouraging once again, just being able to accept where you are, meet yourself, where you are and just have fun with it. I think sometimes yoga can be really serious. And I try to just encourage a fun, playful environment. And I do hope that I create safe, inclusive spaces. I'm really working on that. 

CHRISTINE
Well, it sounds like you do, because I know that personally yoga was difficult for me. I have short limbs and I used to just think that, Oh, I can't do certain poses when really I just needed the right instructor the right teacher to offer me variations, like you said, or props to help lengthen my limbs. So I didn't feel, I'm not as good at yoga.

CHARLENE
Yeah. I love that you mentioned props too, because I do think that we get into this mindset of Oh, props are there for,  if you can't do something. I am obsessed with using props. I always have two blocks by my mat. No matter what practice I'm doing, there's always two blocks there. Bolsters, blankets, straps. You know, they're there to allow you to explore those shapes without injuring yourself, without pushing, without forcing. And it just is another example of being able to create that space and giving yourself that space to play and explore.

CHRISTINE
Yes. And I think it goes back a little bit too to the look, when you're doing yoga the way it should look. So not just the shape of our body, as it looks, fat or thin or small or big,  but also just the competitiveness of, we think that we should look a certain way doing a certain yoga pose and it could look a lot of different ways.

CHARLENE
Definitely. Absolutely. I remember when I first started practicing, it was a hot yoga class that I tried first. And it was, one of the moms of one of my students. She brought me to this studio and I was pushing myself because I had put that expectation on myself of, okay, well, I'm a dancer, I can do all of this stuff and I couldn't make it through the class. I could not finish the class. I had to step out of the room and that was a really good ego check for me. You know, and as I grow, as I continue with my practice, you know, I am a teacher, I'm an instructor, but I'm forever a student of this practice. And as I continue to grow and explore within my own practice, my challenge for myself is, Easing off a little bit, kind of backing off a little bit, using props, taking a little bit of a more gentle approach to my practice, to see what that opens up for me too. I love a good Vinyasa. I love going and sweating and flowing and it's awesome, but I think there's also a challenge there too, of kind of holding back a little bit.

CHRISTINE
So true. So let's talk a little bit about mind, body connection, because as a yoga instructor, we know that that is definitely one of the ways to move that is centered around connection to the mind body.  Whereas a lot of fitness is just moving your body.  And I know that on your Instagram, you give a lot of great,  I want to say advice, but really just uplifting content that really is motivational and inspirational, but helps people connect more. So give us some strategies for helping connect more mind body.

CHARLENE
Sure. Well, thank you so much for sharing that I'm, I'm working on creating content that has value, you know, that that can sort of give tips give tricks. These are things that I just do for myself and I just share them, you know, they're not necessarily right or wrong. So, I think becoming really in tune and becoming really connected to yourself can then influence the way that you feel about movement, the way that you look at your movement, the way that you explore. So I have a regular meditation practice. It's something that I started back in like the summer of last year, but kind of got a little bit more connected and committed to it in December. And that's something that has just been so wonderful for me. It's given me a chance to connect to myself, breathe, connect to my breath and just set myself up for the rest of the day. So I usually like to meditate in the morning, whether it's five minutes, whether it's 15 minutes and then I usually incorporate a little bit of movement and it's just a chance for me to get aligned with myself, get aligned with how I want to feel for the rest of the day, what my intention is. And then that kind of translates, translates into my teaching, into how I show up for my students. So it just allows me to get connected to myself so that I can hold space for other people when I'm interviewing for a podcast. Just giving myself that time to connect with me. I like to also practice and I like to share this with my students, my dance students, my yoga students is just some breath work, you know, when you're feeling overwhelmed, if there's times where you're feeling anxious, if you just need to kind of ground, anytime, any place anywhere you can put the soles of your feet on the floor. I like to bring hands onto my body, maybe on my thighs or one hand on belly, one hand on chest and just take five to 10 deep breaths. And I find this as a really great way to reground, find that connection to yourself again and it helps to tap into that parasympathetic nervous system, calm you down, and then hopefully you can kind of move through your day with a little bit more ease. So yeah, I think breath work is really important. I love to shake. It's something that I like to incorporate into my yoga classes as well.  Shaking, making noise, like shouting screaming, fluttering your lips, change up your energy, shifted around and see how that feels. And I think , just bringing that awareness again, that attention to to your breath can really, really help when you need to find that mind, body connection.  And I think, it just also helps to clear some space in your mind too, by just taking a little bit of a pause, focusing on your breath, clearing out anything else that's happening and then move forward. You know, we're all gonna come up against stress and anxiety it throughout the day throughout the week. It's absolutely inevitable. And it's not necessarily about trying to get rid of that or trying to stop that because it is going to happen. But I think if you can come up against it with some tools, some skills, it can really help to move through the days with a little bit more ease, especially now, you know, we're going through a lot right now, collectively. And I think just having a couple of those tools are really helpful for sure. 

CHRISTINE
Yeah, those tools were very good. I even found myself and I'm sure a few listeners right now, or grounding themselves, putting their feet on the ground and just taking a few breaths.
And it really does change the feeling in your body. If you are stressed and overwhelmed and meditation is something that I know that is highly recommended, but where do you start when you're, like you said, that you just started a meditation practice. Did you just do that on your own? Did you follow someone? Did you follow a program? 

CHARLENE
Yeah, I use an app called insight timer.  You can get a whole bunch of meditations for free. I think there's different levels that you can pay for as well. But there are so many wonderful teachers on there. So they have guided meditations, they have just music. I started, the thing that the catalyst for this meditation practice was a 21 day practice. I think it was, with Deepak Chopra and he had a program that a couple of girlfriends and I started together and it ended up being a 21 day practice. And that's kind of what. Set up the regular, um, yeah, the, the consistency for me. So I use an app but I've heard so many different, different ways. And I think it's really just what works for you. I've heard people say my alarm goes off. I set my, my sleep button. I, you know, I press or the sleep or the snooze button. I roll out it literally roll out of bed onto the floor and do my meditation. Just sit with myself until, you know, the, the next alarm goes off. , It can look like anything. It can really look like anything. It doesn't have to look like you sitting. Cross-legged on a meditation pillow. It could be just that. You know what we talked about before grounding taking a couple of breaths, sitting with yourself for a few moments. That's what it could look like as well. And I think. I actually just did a, um, I just did an episode with one of my instructors from a previous, uh, yoga teacher training. And she focuses a lot on meditation. She actually just finished a 200 day meditation, um, and something that she said to me really resonated, and that was just don't approach it with such rigidity, be really gentle around it. Thoughts are gonna come up, recognize them, acknowledge them, accept them. And then let them pass and. It's just about coming back to your breath. And it's just about being able to just sit with yourself for a few moments. And I think that that also encourages us to, to listen deeper to ourselves. Yeah, no. Talk about mind, body connection. Being able to sit with yourself, being able to be quiet for a few moments to really tap into what is it that my body is telling me, what is it that by that my body needs.  , a few years ago was diagnosed with, uh, like a nephrotic kidney disorder and.
I relapsed a year later and I've relapsed again. And it wasn't until this third time that I finally made that connection that, okay, my body's trying to tell me something, you know, and there's nothing more frustrating than being someone in the fitness profession, in the health and wellness profession and you have illness, ailments, you have illness, you know, it's like, I take care of my body. I know that I'm nourishing myself with healthy foods and I moving my body every day. And so I think your body will find ways to send you those signals and ask you to pay attention and by maybe incorporating a meditation practice, maybe not, but just by creating some space to listen to yourself and to listen to your body. I think that really gives us a huge opportunity to tap into. What our body is telling us?

CHRISTINE
So true. I think we tend to push, push, push instead of pause and listen. So it's really great advice. So I'm going to take a turn because I know you're a professional dancer and I know many of our listeners are fans of, of a certain choreographer that you had the pleasure of working with and are fans of So You Think You Can Dance.  So can you talk a little bit about your experience working with the amazing Sonya Tayeh.

CHARLENE
She is amazing. Yes. So I I'm originally from Toronto. I'm based in Toronto now, but I was living in London, UK for about seven years. And that is where the bulk of my professional career happened. So Sonya was in town, choreographing for Florence and the machine and Florence was, um, performing at the Brit awards. So. I was put forward to be a dancer, had the opportunity to take a workshop class with her beforehand had been obviously a massive fan of her work.  But yeah, getting the opportunity to, to work with her was absolutely incredible.
To see the way that she works was so was a wonderful learning experience for me, especially as a choreographer, as a teacher, um, she takes her work very, very seriously, but is so humble and is such, such an incredible creative, , Open to listening, open to listening to dancers. What do you think, how do you feel about this? But just really. Takes the time to draw the best out of you, , really takes the time to encourage you and, you know, make sure that you feel good about the performance.  She was incredible. She was so lovely. , she had a beautiful assistant with her for that time. And. Yeah, it was probably one of the best experiences. The performance itself was amazing to be on a live stage, listening to Florence and her band perform was insane. Um, yeah, but Sonya was just so, so wonderful. Such a beautiful soul, so humble, so grounded. And it was, it was an amazing, amazing experience. 

CHRISTINE
Sounds like a great experience. I mean, I think we are all fan girling out because we're all fans of Sonya's, especially those of us that have followed her career. We're going to end this episode with some rapid fire quick questions.  We do a lot of movement here at Pop Fit Studio and we always encourage people to find their favorite way to move their body. So what would be your favorite way to move your body?

CHARLENE
I love to dance. I love to shake. I love to move. I love to dance. 

CHRISTINE
Dance is probably on the top of my list as well. You don't need any equipment, you just need some music. Sometimes you can just even hum totally can dance. So your favorite self-care practice?

CHARLENE
I love using essential oils. I actually do it before every podcast recording. I did it before we got on here. I love to use essential oils and sent to help me ground or to help me get energized. Yeah. There's oils all over my place.

CHRISTINE
Yes. We have oils throughout our studio. 
I know you're in Canada and you've probably been on lockdown a few times, we may have spent a few more hours watching some television or some movies. So is there anything that you found throughout this past year has been your binge-worthy?

CHARLENE
Oh yes. Ru Paul's drag race. So I was first introduced to drag race through the Canadian version. And I got hooked on that because I knew one of the choreographers. I knew some of the Queens. And so I was really drawn to that and I was instantly hooked and then basically binged through all of the American version. And now I'm on the UK version. So RuPaul's drag race. For sure. 

CHRISTINE
Okay. We'll have to check that out. And then favorite music. It could be an artist, could be a favorite song that's speaking to you right now, or just a genre. Just whatever that you feel.

CHARLENE
I mean, I did mention, Florence & The Machine, she has been one of my favorite artists for many, many years. I really like, sort of like low-fi electronic. I like to use it a lot for my yoga classes, but I also just like to put it on to chill too. And jazz jazz for sure. My husband and I wake up and we throw on jazz, A morning jazz playlist on our Spotify. My husband dances in a jazz company as well and so that really got us into that music and just a new appreciation for it. 

CHRISTINE
Wow. Okay. I'm going to have to start listening to some jazz now. Maybe it's a good way to start the day. 

CHARLENE
Oh yeah, it definitely is. 

CHRISTINE
Well, I thank you so much for joining us today, sharing your experiences, your expertise and I can't wait to share more, hopefully talk to you again, share some more of your wisdom and I'll share below in the show notes for people that want to connect. Of course follow you. You have a podcast as well that is a wonderful podcast that you should listen to and follow on social media. So thank you so much for joining us today. 

CHARLENE
Thank you so much for having me. It was an absolute honor and a pleasure. And I thank you so much for creating this space and sharing this message because I think it's so very important.
So, so very important. So thank you very much.